Speaker Name	Start Time	End Time	Text
			
Roz Elliot	0:00		"Welcome to Huron County's Life on the coast, a podcast series about topics of importance and interest in Huron County. I'm your host, Roz Elliott, with a dialog about farm succession and transition planning in one of Ontario's largest agricultural economies. During the course of our series, we've set the stage for the imperative of succession planning. We've received expert counsel on what contributes to constructive conversations, and we have heard firsthand from various perspectives about the proverbial farm kitchen table."
			
Roz Elliot			"The female founders, who often wear multiple hats, and the next generation forging the future. In our fifth episode, we invite a new perspective which is adjacent to the core. Seated at the table and yet not an original stakeholder. What is the experience of those who marry into an ongoing concern- the family business; a generational farm? How do you navigate your role?"
			
Roz Elliot			"Today we sit with the in-laws and as we have these conversations, we are reminded of the first people to care and steward the land and resources. They helped us understand this environment. They supported us. We are also reminded of the thoughtful and careful dialog they have had with their next generations about continuity. Truly, they are a model for discussion."
			
Roz Elliot		2:04	"Thinking generations into the future, building on generations of wisdom from before. Here today, offering me some insight, some in-law insight is Florence Witherspoon and Chris Spaleta. Welcome to you both. "
			
Florence Witherspoon	2:04	2:05	Thanks.
			
Chris Spaleta	2:06	2:08	Thanks. Great to be here.
			
Roz Elliot	2:08	2:30	"Well, I thought we could begin by setting a little context. You know, we're going to talk about being at the in-law table adjacent to the core, but it all began with you and your background. We want to hear about you first. So, Florence, talk to me... before you became part of this bigger unit. What's your background?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	2:30		"Well, I was born and raised just outside of Auburn, Ontario, on a dairy farm. my parents, were immigrants. I'm a first generation Canadian. my sister and I helped around on the farm.We were, you know, we were always, you know, scattering around and helping out with milk in the cows and, feeding the calves. "
			
Florence Witherspoon			"And, you know, we just had that rural lifestyle. my parents were always very busy. you know, it wasn't until we were 5 or 6 years old where they actually had some help on the farm.So my parents were always doing it together, and and the farm was our life. That's what we did. so we kind of grew up in there, and my dad, he sold the farm. He ended up buying some laying hens. And through my teen years, we helped out with that as well. And then eventually, when my sister and I were about 20 years old, the conversations were had and it was decided that they were going to sell it off."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"So the succession planning never happened in my own family directly. So this is something kind of new in this in this realm for me. but, you know, from what I was raised in my dad, in his own family before he came, he kind of completed the succession planning before he had his own family. So these conversations of including other people in decision making was never a conversation, because it was always just done and dealt with."
			
Florence Witherspoon		4:02	"So, I grew up with my dad being a free agent. He never relied on anyone else to to to contribute to the conversation about how things are going to move forward. "
			
Roz Elliot	4:03	4:07	And it sounds like a lot of fond memories in this lifestyle of growing up on a farm. 
			
Florence Witherspoon	4:08	4:17	"Oh, rural lifestyle is something that I have chosen to continue on. A large part of the reason why I am where I am today is because I chose not to go to the city."
			
Roz Elliot	4:18	4:20	"And your kids, do they love it, too?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	4:21	4:40	"Oh, yeah. we have a pathway that goes between, our farm and the home farm, and it's right in the middle of the field, and they they take the blue buggy, the the, you know, the side by side, and they go back and forth. They, they take walks to grandma's house that way. And, I couldn't imagine not having the space, you know, with the trampoline and the pond nearby. And I couldn't imagine not having that. "
			
Roz Elliot	4:41	4:54	"Yeah, it's that idyllic upbringing that we remember. I remember running out in the fields and going to the big bush and looking for tracks, and, you know, that's the image a lot of people have of growing up on a farm. And, and you had some really great memories."
			
Florence Witherspoon	4:54	4:57	The sauntering free spirit I like to always think about. So.
			
Emily Morrison	4:58	5:06	" Well, let's turn to another sauntering free spirit. But not one. I don't believe that. Grew up on a farm. Chris. What was your upbringing?"
			
Chris Spaleta	5:07		"Well, I grew up here in Goderich, like ten minutes from Florence, but it had a very different upbringing. I my parents were both also immigrants. one from France, one from Italy. And I grew up with my dad as an architect, and my mom was a teacher. "
			
Chris Spaleta		5:39	"The closest my family came to farming was my dad's grandfather farmed in Italy. And so as a child, he, he lived near a farm in Italy. But that's that's about all we had."
			
Roz Elliot	5:40	5:42	Did you hear stories about that farm growing up?
			
Chris Spaleta	5:43	5:54	"A little. The ones that I recall involve him being bad and his grandma grabbing a switch from a nearby tree. But, no, not a lot about the farming."
			
Roz Elliot	5:55		" Well, before we get into your current arrangements, I want to stay a little bit selfish and talk a little bit more about who you are and your daddy, and I want to go back to you, Florence."
			
Roz Elliot		6:18	"You have a big job. You were the clerk of the municipality of Ashfield-Colbourne-Wawanosh. (ACW). I know that's a big role. You've got to be savvy, talented, accomplished. What's your package? What's your identity?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	6:19		"Well, to be honest, I never, you know, when you... When we talk about me growing up on a farm, I was I was never a farmer.I was I was the kid that was dragged out to the farm that had to help. Rural lifestyle aside, you know, I was not the one that was passionate about the animals, or I did it because I was."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"I needed to, and I had to, and and not that I totally begrudge doing it, but, so I was always, you know, off with my friends, you know, going to the city, trying to explore new places, see new things."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"And, after going to school, I realized that I wanted to be at home, and, I, I've always felt that this was that I was to do something that had to be grassroots and that had to have some kind of cultural and community, kind of inclusion to it. So I am the clerk of the township. I, I it's about as grassroots as you can get, especially in a small rural municipality."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"I am I consider myself a leader in my community, and, I'm, I am I'm a heavy decision maker, I guess. aside from, you know, I guess in the background, obviously with council as my directive, but, I, I see myself as someone who is independent, and I can, I can manage many of life's challenges."
			
Florence Witherspoon		7:47	"And I, you know, in, in this conversation, I think that brings an asset to, to the conversation of, of succession planning and, and, you know, managing a future decision as well. So…"
			
Roz Elliot	7:48	8:02	"Yeah, you're going to bring a very unique perspective and a sense that you're, you're a leader in the community. And what does that mean within the farm unit? How do you show leadership when perhaps you're not part of that internal integral unit? You're also a mom."
			
Florence Witherspoon	8:02	8:07	"Yes. I've got two children. We have two children, six and nine, and they are rambunctious and a lot of fun."
			
Roz Elliot	8:08	8:11	Wow. Well. And interests. What? What's fun for you?
			
Florence Witherspoon	8:12	8:41	"Gosh, music is probably one of my, big ones. I am a member of Huron Song. I have a lot of fun doing that. That's my weekly meditative, activity. I have a I have a pretty big garden outside, a perennial garden. I don't bother with vegetables because that's just way too much work. [laughs] I don't have time for that. You know, a full time job and then also the farm to help out with, when I need to. So, that kind of. And I love books, so. Yeah. Winter is my reading time."
			
Roz Elliot	8:42	8:45	"Chris, what hopes and dreams did you have as a kid? What did you think you would be doing?"
			
Chris Spaleta	8:46	8:54	"Exploring the world? Building bridges a mile? No, [laughs] I, I have no idea. As a child, I thought of all sorts of stuff."
			
Roz Elliot	8:55	8:56	You were an open book. You were a dreamer. 
			
Chris Spaleta	8:57	9:00	"Yeah, I just. What. Whatever was coming up, I was just excited to see what happened."
			
Roz Elliot	9:01	9:11	"And you have parents from who grew up in, in Europe. So you're, you're worldly, you're a reader, you're a writer. I know, you're kind of ""a big ideas"" kind of guy."
			
Chris Spaleta	9:12	9:18	"Yes. I love, I love just finding out what's going on and being a part of it and helping out where I can."
			
Roz Elliot	9:19	9:22	"And you've done some work with Eat Local Huron, I understand."
			
Chris Spaleta	9:23	9:46	"I'm the executive director of Eat Local Huron. I was, the founding chair when we started it up, and, yeah, it's a- for those who don't know, it's a nonprofit that, runs an online farm store for all of the farmers and food makers in the area so that you can so that people in Huron County can go online and buy whatever they want from all of the different farmers and have it dropped off at that point."
			
Roz Elliot	9:47		"Yeah, you've done impressive work. And, what a contribution, again, to the community. This is what we talk about making a difference at the local level. You both, in your own ways, are really making a mark. So thank you for that. Well, let's go ahead a little bit. something neat happened. You fell in love. You met the one."
			
Roz Elliot		10:31	"And, now you find yourself part associated with a farm family. And for you, not so foreign, Florence, for you, Chris, a little bit different story. Florence. For you, it was eyes wide open. I'm going to guess. Can you describe for me? Is there a culture of agriculture? Is there a lifestyle that people that you were familiar with that you kind of knew what you're getting into?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	10:32		"Oh, for sure. I think the expectation around the 24/7, 365 clock was was there. that's something I grew up with. I know that, I think that part of it was always set in stone for me. you know, Nathan knew from the time that he was, you know, from the time that he could ride the pedal tractor, that he wanted to be a farmer."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"And so when I met him, I just I just knew that. Right? I think the thing that wasn't there was the idea that it might be a little different than what I expected it to be. So that the family traditions, the the other way of doing things, you know, that's not how I do it or that's not how we did it."
			
Florence Witherspoon			"Those kinds of, stepping stones. Even in any relationship, you kind of learn how to do that. But in a farm, it's it's that same way where, no, that's not your decision. That's mine or that's not how we do things. We'll do it this way. that was a bit of a curve. and for me, it was really a lesson of, okay, well, maybe I'll just step back for a little while and let this evolve and see how things happen."
			
Florence Witherspoon		11:45	"I mean, I obviously I have my own career, so it's it's something I could just I could just leave it and do my own thing. Well, things got kind of sorted out or watching how they, how they work. And when you're, you know, you, as, as the clerk, is it appreciate that you have a big job that you're doing by the by the family for sure."
			
Roz Elliot	11:46	11:56	"And when you're, you know, at ACW, as the clerk, is it appreciated that you have a big job that you're doing by the by the family? "
			
Florence Witherspoon	11:56	11:57	For sure.
			
Roz Elliot	11:57	11:58	Yeah. They get that?
			
Florence Witherspoon	11:58	11:59	Yep.
			
Roz Elliot	12:00	12:13	"Okay, good. Chris, I want to turn to you. I don't get the sense that it was as eyes wide open that, you know, a lot of people think this is like an escape to the country. Very idyllic. Were there some unwritten rules that you didn't know? No one handed you a playbook, did they?"
			
Chris Spaleta	12:14		"I had no idea what farming was like before moving to a farm. I, I have been learning as I go, and there is still tons and tons that I have yet to learn. But, no, I had I had no experience in farming. When Maria started farming, I was all gung ho for her to start farming. I was like, great, this is going to be fun. Good for you,"
			
Chris Spaleta		12:50	"...enjoy that while I go do whatever it is I'm going to do. I worked in banking for a while. I also, I so didn't know what it was like to run your own business. Long story short, no idea."
			
Roz Elliot	12:51	12:55	And so how did you find yourself weaving into the fabric of the farm? 
			
Chris Spaleta	12:56	13:17	"Just bit by bit. Like when, whenever, they needed help here or there. I would do a little bit here, do a little bit there, learn a little bit as I went and, and eventually, by the time we were having kids, I was stepping in, and running the barn full time, and, I didn't see it coming, but there you go. [laughs]"
			
Roz Elliot	13:18	13:19	So you're like a full time farmer?
			
Chris Spaleta	13:20	13:40	"Not, not, not so much anymore. As, as our kids are getting older. Our youngest is two now. Maria, step back in in the barn. But, But yes, I did that for the last decade. Roughly. Yeah. Not not the, not in the fields or anything. Just in the barn."
			
Roz Elliot	13:40	13:49	"And how how do you prioritize? Were there things that naturally came your way, kids, anything like that, that were assigned to you, if you will?"
			
Chris Spaleta	13:50	13:57	"I wish I had a grand, overarching plan, but we just kind of figured it out as we went along."
			
Roz Elliot	13:58	14:00	Would you change anything? Is it is it been a good experience?
			
Chris Spaleta	14:01	14:03	"Oh, it's been great. I can't say I would change anything."
			
Roz Elliot	14:04	14:17	"Well, I want to talk a little bit about you as a family. Your family with your kids. Just. Just your little. Your family unit. what's us time look like, Florence? What? What's your own rhythms look like?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	14:18		"Us time is, you know, after school, me getting home from work, getting supper started. Those conversations that you have about your day. Then Nathan gets home from work. He does have a full time job outside of the farm as well. and then it's, you know, the moments before chores, and then he he grabs the kids, takes them out for chores. They, you know, play in the hay mow all while we. we clean up or do whatever."
			
Florence Witherspoon		15:05	"And, and then, yeah, weekends are spent, you know, tidying up or helping with fencing or, you know, doing, you know, going out to the bush or those kinds of things. So it's always it's it's very rural focused. it's it's time there. We don't, we don't spend our time--We don't spend our weekends going to the city. We don't find those things to do because we know that there they are right there at home. "
			
Roz Elliot	15:06	15:09	Yeah. People pay to go to rural places for vacation days. 
			
Florence Witherspoon	15:08	15:10	Precisely. We don't need to do that.
			
Roz Elliot	15:10		Isn't that a luxury?
			
Roz Elliot		15:16	"And Chris, for you, is there a special vibe that your family unit has?"
			
Chris Spaleta	15:17	15:17	Chaos. [Laughs]
			
Roz Elliot	15:18	15:19	"Oh, I love that. Brilliant"
			
Chris Spaleta	15:19	15:37	"[Laughs] It's. I've got five kids. so it's, Yeah, it seems like Us time is, like, all the time. And there are brief moments where there's nobody in the house. You look around and you're like, oh, really? This is this is amazing."
			
Florence Witherspoon	15:37	15:39	I savor those moments.
			
Chris Spaleta	15:40	15:40	Right?
			
Roz Elliot	15:41	15:43	"Far and few between, I imagine."
			
Chris Spaleta	15:43	15:48	"Yeah. So like, our youngest is two and our oldest is nine. and so yeah, it's been go, go, go…"
			
Roz Elliot	15:48	15:48	Busy
			
Chris Spaleta	15:48	15:50	" ...long time now. Yeah,"
			
Roz Elliot	15:50	15:50	Busy.
			
Chris Spaleta	15:50	15:57	"Yeah. but it's fun. Like it's constant. It's constant chaotic fun, I should say."
			
Roz Elliot	15:57		"Oh, that sounds remarkable."
			
Roz Elliot		16:25	"Now here's a question for you. As we as we think about the business of the farm that you're associated with, Florence, for you, you're watching some of the business actions happen. You're maybe not a contributing decision maker, if that's fair. But you've been around a block, your decision maker in your own and own sense. What goes through your head? How can you contribute? How can you be of support?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	16:26		"I think the best way is to be the support, as you just said. you know, I know that I am not the primary decision maker in this because it is not it is not my business that has been brought down, and it is not something that, that, that I manage, as a decision maker in, as in my nature being a decision maker, it can be very tough to kind of stand back and watch it play out, but I understand fully that it is not mine to do."
			
Florence Witherspoon		17:27	"I think there is an expectation in, in agriculture that once you marry into it, or as soon as you become involved in it, that it's all hands on deck and that every single person has this, this an innate ability and want and need to be completely part of it. and that's not true. I'm... I love to watch his dream unfold.... but it's his dream, and I will be there to support it in every way that I can, but it's not my check box to check off."
			
Roz Elliot	17:28	17:32	So you've got some very clear delineations and healthy respect there. It feels like?
			
Florence Witherspoon	17:32	17:33	"There is, for sure."
			
Roz Elliot	17:33	17:49	"That's wonderful. And, Chris, for you, you... you get a front row seat to everything going on. Do you... how do you contribute? How do you help them navigate when you see things? You have a, you know, a finance background? You have languages! You're a smart guy! "
			
Chris Spaleta	17:50	18:38	"[laughs] Thank you. So... ""Is it the same as Florence?"" Basically like, I, I watch it happen, I bring to the table my skills when I can and when asked for and, and it's it's her operation.Like I, I'm there to help. I kind of it's kind of like, like if, if Maria was running a hotel, like, she would run everything. And then when she needed help with something, I'd step in and help. But, like, she's manager, owner, the whole thing. And, and like a hotel, sometimes stuff happens in the middle of the night, and you've got to not do whatever you're doing and hold down the fort while she's out dealing with whatever needs dealing with. but, yeah, it's her. It's her operation."
			
Roz Elliot	18:39	18:40	And you're very flexible and supportive.
			
Chris Spaleta	18:40	18:41	I have learned to be.
			
Roz Elliot	18:42		"You've got to be. You've got to be no choice, right?"
			
Roz Elliot		19:22	"Let me let me ask you this. I'm gonna have you put your advice column hat on here for a second. So imagine, if you will, Florence, you get a call from one of your dearest friends in the world, and your dearest friend says, oh my goodness, guess what? I met the one. wow. Perfect person. And I'm moving to Huron County to join them on their family farm, third generation farm. I just bought cool coveralls and work boots, and I'm going to have a flower perennial farm, and I'm going to play my, you know, my guitar on the porch, my ukulele. What would you say to your best friend? And after you stop laughing, of course. What would you say?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	19:23	19:59	"I'd say talk about it first. I think, I think there's a level of expectation or. How do I even put it? I think you need to release expectations. Where there is expectation, there is going to be disappointment. So you've you really have to just step back and watch it unfold and realize that it's not yours. Sure. You know, you have this wonderful land that you can now throw a beautiful garden around, but you have to work with that. It's not something that will be inherent or will happen right away. You just have to take your time with it. "
			
Roz Elliot	20:00	20:08	"Expectation, disappointment. That was a really striking thought. I like that a lot. And Chris, I'm put you put your advice columnist hat your best friend in the whole world is going to do the job. What what do you say to them?"
			
Chris Spaleta	20:09	20:39	"If they're going and farming, then awesome. I hope they know what they're doing. it's just to remember that the farm's business. It's a... it's a... it's running a small business. It's not, you know, it's, it's not a playground. It's a business. And it requires attention like a business, and it's on your mind like a business. And, you know, when stuff needs doing, everything else needs to stop, like a business. Just understand that it's. It's a business."
			
Roz Elliot	20:40	20:43	"I get it. Last thought. Florence, are you happy?"
			
Florence Witherspoon	20:44	20:44	Yes
			
Roz Elliot	20:45	20:45	Yeah?
			
Florence Witherspoon	20:45	21:07	"Yes. I wouldn't change it. I think watching watching it evolve, watching us grow, watching our family grow in this rural environment, you know, having having the land, having the cows, it's it's part of it. I wouldn't change any of it. No."
			
Roz Elliot	21:08	21:09	 Chris. You you. Is it a joy?
			
Chris Spaleta	21:10	21:12	"Yeah, it's a life. It's a joy."
			
Roz Elliot	21:13	21:22	 You too. You too. I want to thank you for joining me on this conversation. Is there anything that we didn't chat about that you think it's important for people to know?
			
Chris Spaleta	21:23	21:59	"In my particular case, our farm has been in Maria's family since the 1830s or 40s.And that adds another dimension to it. We're like, this is this is a historic family farm that has been passed down through generations. Like if it wasn't already, definitely hers. It's definitely hers. Like, it's it's a family thing. There's heritage and tradition going on there on top of the business as well. And that's really cool for our children as well, that they get to be a part of that. "
			
Roz Elliot	22:00	22:01	It's like an heirloom.
			
Chris Spaleta	22:02	22:02	Yes
			
Roz Elliot	22:02	22:03	Wow.
			
Chris Spaleta	22:03	22:08	"Except that, you know, you get to play around on and, and that makes you money. It's really great. [laughs]"
			
Roz Elliot	22:08	22:11	"A really good heirloom, from what I hear. [Laughs] There you go."
			
Florence Witherspoon	22:11	22:47	"So if I could just add into that, you know, my, my husband, obviously the, the generation isn't that long. However, there is this, inherent and this ingrained love for the idea of a historic value in, in the generations. He wants to do this because he wants to pass it on. That whole feeling of of being part of where you live and where you grow up, it is so important. And he wants to pass that along. And I think there's so much value in that."
			
Roz Elliot	22:47	23:05	"Well, I'd like to thank you both for passing along such tremendous insight. It's been so helpful. And Florence, earlier you mentioned expectations and disappointment. I had no disappointment. And I did have high expectations and you both surpassed them greatly. So thank you for that."
			
Florence Witherspoon	23:05	23:09	You're welcome. Thanks for having us. 
			
Chris Spaleta	23:09	23:10	Thanks.
			
Roz Elliot	23:12		"Thank you both, Florence and Chris, for your candor today. Much appreciated. You both offer a perspective that, as both observer and participant, and it's very much a unique vantage point. You are your own person. I get a strong sense of that today. And you're also a very important part of an economy that we need that shapes our region and our own country."
			
Roz Elliot			"And you're doing your own thing too. We're going to look forward to our final episode, which will come full circle in our series, back to the Founder Generation. And we will hear from the founder male. Join us here again on Huron County's life on the coast. And thank you for listening. I'm Roz Elliot. This podcast is funded in part by the Interior Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs and the County of Huron."
			
Roz Elliot		24:13:00 AM	The views expressed in this podcast are not those of the province or the county.