00;00;00;00 - 00;00;40;04 Roz Elliot Welcome to Huron County's Life on the Coast, a podcast series about topics of importance and interest in Huron County. I'm your host, Roz Elliott. Our first series explores the heart of the county, its agricultural sector, and its vital contribution to the world's food supply. Of its 2564 farms, what happens if some don't continue into the next generation? How do we ensure the sustainability of our most cherished sector? 00;00;40;06 - 00;01;10;18 Roz Elliot We will delve into the imperative of farm transition planning from the perspectives of business leaders, community and local government. And of course, farm families themselves. As we have these conversations, we're reminded of the first people to care and steward the land and resources who shared their knowledge with us, who helped us. We are respectful that we share this responsibility. 00;01;10;21 - 00;01;41;20 Roz Elliot This first episode about transitioning the farm aims to set the table for the more personal conversations to follow. What are the economic and social drivers that necessitate a farm transition plan? We begin with the perspective of the greater business landscape with the CEO of Hensall Co-op, Brad Chandler. Brad big fan of the Hensall Co-op, been around since, I believe 1937. 00;01;41;22 - 00;01;49;09 Roz Elliot Long history of membership and it's really grown over its time. How do you create value for your members? 00;01;49;10 - 00;02;11;01 Brad Chandler Our whole model is around creating value for our members where we have about 6000 farm members of that, probably 2000 - 2400 are full time farmers. So it's creating value on their farms to allow them to prosper. So what can we do to help them? Supply them in all their points of needs on the farm and service them to the best of our ability. 00;02;11;01 - 00;02;27;13 Brad Chandler So that's the values on the external side and then on the inside, we're creating value from on the economic side. Creating more areas of revenue and premiums and savings and market marketing their products on a global stage. 00;02;27;15 - 00;02;54;17 Roz Elliot Well Brad, we're having this conversation about transitioning farms, and it's always been a material conversation in the sense that we have to care about sort of the connectivity and the continuity of operations. I want to ask you on several topics today about why this matters, why we should be concerned about farm transition. Talk to me about why it matters to continuity of operations. 00;02;54;19 - 00;03;14;10 Brad Chandler From Hensall Co-op's point of view. and I think agriculture and a whole we're going into a time frame here in Ontario. We're going to see the largest land mass of movement of land to the next gen generation, the next demographic and the next consolidated size. So we're going to see a lot of smaller firms go to mid-size and/or midsize to larger. 00;03;14;13 - 00;03;34;22 Brad Chandler And it's going to be a change of the landscape for all of us. For us, the continuity and succession is to help us keep continuity of operations on the farm. There's so many important things that go on in the farm, and we need to make the transition seamless from farm ownership into farm management from one generation to the next. 00;03;34;22 - 00;04;05;28 Brad Chandler That's what's important to us. And then there's also the long term relationships that are built around that succession. The long term supply agreements that we have in place that allow us as Hensall Co-op. We're marketing to end users globally to over 45 different countries, and they rely on that ability to sustain their needs. And we rely on our growers so that our relationships, they are the sustainability of the transition is very, very important to our business. 00;04;06;05 - 00;04;23;04 Roz Elliot While that's a lot to unpack, you said some pretty powerful things there that I just want to delve into just a little bit. You talk about this is going to be a point in time where we see a consolidation of farms coming up. We haven't seen that since maybe the eighties? Nineties? Would that be about right? 00;04;23;10 - 00;04;50;01 Brad Chandler Yeah, I think probably since that time that you mentioned that was done, probably some succession, lot of it was done through a financial crisis. Many of the people listening probably can remember that or heard about the 20% interest rates in the eighties. And, and it was tough on farmers. Since that time, farming has did extremely well. But farmers are always they are dedicated to their profession and it continues to grow. 00;04;50;02 - 00;05;11;09 Brad Chandler Land values continue to rise every year and farm sizes. But the challenge with farming today is the equity and capital it takes to be a farmer. And the next thing is the equipment to farm. They don't make small equipment anymore. They're made for a midsized to a large farm operation, and it continues to grow that way. The trends are that way. 00;05;11;09 - 00;05;16;05 Brad Chandler So we see a lot of the succession planning and the challenges that they go through. 00;05;16;08 - 00;05;34;06 Roz Elliot Yeah, that's really striking when I think about that, the landscape that you paint again, you spend a lot of time in other countries. You see the trends, you see what comes here. And stepping up to that next level of size is a game changer. 00;05;34;08 - 00;05;57;12 Brad Chandler Well, really what we're marketing is niche markets, specialty markets, globally. That they're the countries are emerging to, their farmers are interested in those. We call them niche or specialty markets. They want to they have large, very large firms that are needed to create the volume. What we need is the those specialty markets are lesser volume but higher premium. 00;05;57;15 - 00;06;18;22 Brad Chandler So it comes down to dollars and cents and workload at the at the farm level. So that's what we really market. We're marketing to some countries that have that land base to do what we do, but the farmers don't see that value. So we hope to create that value, make a culture around that value and then deliver that value to the end users. 00;06;18;28 - 00;06;39;06 Roz Elliot Well, that speaks then to what I think is one of the next big points that you referenced, which is economic stability. And in the sense that if we don't have strong farm transitions and we have a breakdown, this affects this overall market. It's precarious if we don't keep this in play. 00;06;39;11 - 00;07;16;24 Brad Chandler Yes. With us, every farm counts to us. So well well-planned, successful succession strategy helps prevent financial turmoil within that family and that family unit and also the business unit that you represent. So a family unit also has the business side of it, and that's what we're dealing with all this time. So without a proper succession plan, disputes over farm assets or management or not passing on that knowledge. It creates potential crisis, leading to you know, financial instability to us as a co-operative and to our end users relying on that product. 00;07;16;26 - 00;07;21;09 Brad Chandler So yeah, the economic stability is very, very important to us. 00;07;21;15 - 00;07;30;06 Roz Elliot And so there you spoke to the source, the sustainability of the co-operative. 6000 members strong you as you just said, every member counts. 00;07;30;08 - 00;07;53;22 Brad Chandler Yeah, every member counts. Every succession counts. Our farmers are very diversified so it gets very complicated when you not only have you have your crop side of the business, you have annual nutrition. Many of them are involved in poultry or swine or cattle. So and then they do multiple crops, the rotations of crops, the management of the animals on the farm and the crop. 00;07;53;25 - 00;08;23;04 Brad Chandler It's a very complicated science. And our farmers here, they do it very well and make it look very seamless and very easy, which it's not. But yeah, it's very much needed that we need to create that atmosphere so we can sustain that going forward. 6000 members, don't get me wrong, is important, but the viable, strong members within that 6000 is what leads our business. And our relationship with those businesses, their farm businesses is the most important to us. 00;08;23;07 - 00;08;45;11 Roz Elliot When I think about everything you just said, I'm just very aware of how much knowledge exists that's been passed down from generation to generation. This is a complex organization, a family farm, a family business often incorporated. One of the aspects about this is how do you pass that knowledge on? How do you keep it? As you say, there's a lot going on out there. 00;08;45;13 - 00;09;17;21 Brad Chandler Well, the way they pass it on is having a succession plan. You know, that's the biggest thing is for us, is that sustainablity. Is that that farm plan sharing that farm's passed down to the next successor, the competent successors that want that. And that the information that goes along with on that far. Farming as a whole you can read on broad levels but it when it comes down to farming that businesses land and grooming their livestock and taking care of what's on of that farm, that's where the real value lies to us. 00;09;17;26 - 00;09;35;09 Brad Chandler And that's what allows us to have because we want them to succeed. So we want that transfer of knowledge. So we have to have a longer succession. Maybe where people are shadowing, their learning, their understanding, they recognize the importance of it and they grow with it. And then it's an easier transfer of knowledge. 00;09;35;10 - 00;09;36;12 Roz Elliot Yeah. Good business, right? 00;09;36;12 - 00;09;37;04 Brad Chandler Yeah, good business. 00;09;37;05 - 00;09;52;11 Roz Elliot Good business. Now I'm going to put on my selfish hat. I like to eat. At the end of the day, I like my breakfast, lunch and dinner. I love the tasty food that the area has. The region. Speak to me a little bit about food security. What again happens if we don't have good planning? 00;09;52;14 - 00;10;12;16 Brad Chandler Well, food security, our consumers more and more demanding to know the traceability on their food. First of all, we're very lucky here in Canada to have food security, not, you know, most of us can go and get food wherever we want. We and we have a confidence that it's safe and it has full traceability. 00;10;12;18 - 00;10;32;01 Brad Chandler And consumers want that and they want to know where it's coming from, and how that food is cultured or cultivated, and understand the food supply chain of that food. So it's great because we can supply that. And the other countries that we're dealing with globally also want that. So we need that food security from our growers. 00;10;32;07 - 00;10;52;08 Brad Chandler And today we have that. And our goal is to make sure that we, in these succession plans, that people carry that same importance on that side of the businesses. The secure, the food security, because many parts of the world don't have that food security. We deal in Asia where 70% of their food is imported and they don't trust anyone because this is their food. 00;10;52;14 - 00;11;08;12 Brad Chandler They want to see traceability. They have to understand where that food came from. They have to first of all, they have to trust their partners. And we're lucky enough that we have a long history in parts of Asia, Southeast Asia, where they trust us and they know we're going to supply the best product and safe product that we can have and provide them. 00;11;08;16 - 00;11;14;06 Brad Chandler And we're lucky enough that at the co-op we have a very strong quality assurance program. 00;11;14;09 - 00;11;24;24 Roz Elliot Yeah, I, I just get such an immense pride when I think about everything that goes from food to table, off the king’s tables, that you said earlier, I love that expression. 00;11;24;24 - 00;11;44;14 Brad Chandler We survive. I always say that, you know, Hensall Co-op is perceived to be a large business and which we are. We're over $1,000,000,000 business, I'm I'm not trying to belittle that side of it. But in the world function, the world, the horizon, we're not that big. We survive off the crumbs, off the king's tables, the things that the big companies don't want to do. 00;11;44;18 - 00;12;03;19 Brad Chandler We need to do them and do them very well. And there's lots of customers out there. I take great pride when I sit and I go to Japan or go to a country, Japan in particular, and they they bring out their product. Maybe it's tofu. And they they're so proud of this tofu that they created and that they've manufactured and they have me taste it. 00;12;03;25 - 00;12;16;03 Brad Chandler And I'm proud of the fact that it's our beans that made that tofu. Their pride, their pride is all in the product that they made and they have a great brand. And my pride is in knowing that our beans, our IP soybeans that went into making that product. 00;12;16;07 - 00;12;28;13 Roz Elliot I think I just had that the other night. It was delicious. Absolutely. Again, I think a pride, I think, of the members who are part of the co-op. What does satisfaction or success look like to them? 00;12;28;16 - 00;12;54;14 Brad Chandler You know, I think the co-op continues to grow. We're lucky. We have great support. We're not perfect because the world is changing so quickly. It's hard for us to keep up at times but we're growing. And the only way we can grow is by the support of our members. So, we gauge our growth by the support from those members and we are doing our best to supply them with the critical supplies that they need to farm properly, at the best price, leveraging it. 00;12;54;19 - 00;13;08;25 Brad Chandler We continuous to stay all Canadian ownership and we're totally independent. That's what we like and we that's what our membership tells us they want. And our success is really their success. 00;13;08;27 - 00;13;24;11 Roz Elliot Right. And I'm going to give you one final opportunity to say anything that you think you want our farm businesses and families to hear what's important. Why should they care, in a nutshell, about farm transition? 00;13;24;14 - 00;13;50;10 Brad Chandler Well, farm transition, I mean, I think farming is a great opportunity. It's a great lifestyle. It's very rewarding. You can't ask for a more down to earth profession, if that's what we want to call. It's really a livelihood that people admire. It's important that people recognize how important they are, the crops that they're producing are so important to our economies. 00;13;50;12 - 00;14;13;15 Brad Chandler Our farm economies, our rural economies. We want our rural communities to stay alive and to grow. And everyone works. Everyone helps us grow. And it's hard until you get to your overseas and you see how highly regarded our Hensall Co-op and Canadian and Ontario food products are regarded. It's hard to really get the full picture of it, but it's very important. 00;14;13;21 - 00;14;29;11 Brad Chandler It's very important that we have a longer term succession plan where people are passing on knowledge for one another. They're understanding that every part of their farm operation and that they're supported by the people that are there passing that farm on. That's very important that they have that full support. 00;14;29;13 - 00;14;50;04 Roz Elliot Well, thanks to you, I have a better picture of the broader landscape and the important role that our farmers play from the beginning to the end. Soup to nuts, if you will. A proud fourth generation daughter of a Huron County pig farmer. And there is something very proud about growing up with the rural roots and seeing the contributions. 00;14;50;04 - 00;14;58;27 Roz Elliot So thank you to Hensall Co-op and everything you do and all your members do to bring food security to our tables. 00;14;59;00 - 00;15;03;04 Brad Chandler Thank you, and thank you to all our members that support us. 00;15;03;07 - 00;15;32;20 Roz Elliot Huron County’s Agricultural impact is far greater than I appreciated as a youth growing up on a cash crop and pig farm in Stanley Township, I remember an idyllic upbringing unaware of the high interest rates. Those stressors and the concerns about yields and market prices. I admit to having rose colored glasses to help with my hindsight and foresight. 00;15;33;06 - 00;16;03;27 Roz Elliot I sat with Gwen Devereaux, President of Gateway Center for Excellence in Rural Health, to better understand the social and mental health perspective of operating a family farm business. I have a bit of rose colored glasses and a romanticized version of my upbringing on my farm in Stanley Township, and I know it wasn't all rosie, but I remember a very community time. 00;16;04;04 - 00;16;16;06 Roz Elliot I wonder if you could paint a scene for us of, when we think of the farming life, maybe back in the eighties, in the nineties, or the seventies. What was it like? 00;16;16;08 - 00;17;04;01 Gwen Devereaux Well, my picture through my rose colored glasses is this beautiful countryside with amazing crops, with farmers taking huge pride in in producing those crops that were feeding us. And everyone had large gardens and people worked together years ago. We didn't have the equipment, so they came together for planting, they came together for harvest. They were very involved in the community as a farming community in these small rural towns and a beautiful lifestyle, just beautiful to be raised in the country. 00;17;04;03 - 00;17;12;03 Roz Elliot And I remember spending a lot of time with neighbors and joining up, collaborating at church even. It was a time of community. 00;17;12;10 - 00;17;14;20 Gwen Devereaux A time of community, absolutely. 00;17;14;22 - 00;17;27;29 Roz Elliot And with that, I always think about when you're together with people that you know, when you're working alongside, you talk a lot about the little things. But as you're talking about the little things, you sometimes talk about the big things. 00;17;27;29 - 00;17;29;23 Gwen Devereaux Absolutely. Absolutely. 00;17;29;24 - 00;17;42;18 Roz Elliot Well, what's it like? Let's fast forward to maybe what, what's changed in sort of the environment of the landscape. What's it like now? What what's maybe changed or is different? 00;17;42;20 - 00;18;12;21 Gwen Devereaux Well, the large farms are no longer the small farms survive in economically. They've grown large, larger and larger. Equipment huge and more isolation for that farmer who will be operating this very large equipment alone for hours in a day. And that's a huge difference. 00;18;12;23 - 00;18;14;28 Roz Elliot Yeah. So isolation. 00;18;15;01 - 00;18;20;03 Gwen Devereaux Isolation is big and we all know how that feels because of COVID. 00;18;20;06 - 00;18;20;23 Roz Elliot We do. 00;18;20;23 - 00;18;57;22 Gwen Devereaux And the fact that they have many stressors watching the market, the weather and so on. And we all had the same stress during the pandemic, in we couldn't see our loved ones. And now with the agriculture community, they have large farms and it's a race against weather it's financially the stress of these big farms and this equipment, it's so expensive. 00;18;57;25 - 00;19;17;25 Roz Elliot I also think, you know, again, I have such fond memories of my father and just I felt that he could tackle anything and I always considered him the strong, silent type. Do we associate a persona that maybe makes it hard for people in farms to be expressive? 00;19;17;25 - 00;20;04;03 Gwen Devereaux Yes, absolutely, 100%. I mean, I think that's handed down from generation to generation. They had to deal with it. And so I think farmers have just had to deal with it. So the interesting part about this is they go through all the same things that the rest of us go through. Loss of loved ones, financial hardships, marriage breakups, partnerships, and yet they feel they need to handle it because every day in their work, they’re mechanics, they’re engineers, they are incredibly, in my mind, the most brilliant professionals, really. 00;20;04;05 - 00;20;11;17 Roz Elliot I always thought my dad was a bit of a MacGyver. He could make the swather run again by using mother's old pantyhose when a belt went. 00;20;11;17 - 00;20;14;03 Gwen Devereaux You know, I now imagine doing that on this. 00;20;14;08 - 00;20;14;27 Roz Elliot Not so much. 00;20;14;27 - 00;20;15;24 Gwen Devereaux Not so much. Not so. 00;20;15;24 - 00;20;29;23 Roz Elliot Much. So where does that leave our friends in the farm? It's they're isolated. Perhaps they don't feel that they can talk about things. What are some of the things or solutions or resources for them? How do they find community? 00;20;29;25 - 00;21;05;05 Gwen Devereaux I think that's an incredibly good question. We have developed a project called Shed Talks, which we're launching December 1st in Brussels. And we're very excited about this and this is totally about bringing farmers together and creating that community of farmers. And you and I both know that if you say to people, you know, how are you doing? And they'll say, Fine, I'm good, I'm great, everything's good. 00;21;05;10 - 00;21;31;02 Gwen Devereaux And then you say, Because you know of what they're going through you say, how are you really doing? And sometimes I'm not sure if it's the nurse in me, but sometimes when I say that to people, they will then really open up. And I think what we want to create with our shed talks is that kind of relationship with the farmers, that they can bring their people together where they're comfortable. 00;21;31;02 - 00;22;00;27 Gwen Devereaux So in launching these shared talks, we're hoping that the farmers will then take them to their own community. And they will gather a few farmers together in the neighborhood and they will meet on a regular basis. And for no particular reason but to be together, so that they develop a community, as you put it. That they can turn to perhaps in hard times, just to have someone to talk to. 00;22;01;00 - 00;22;33;03 Roz Elliot You know, I think about how for women we have a natural inclination to bond and talk about things, stages of life. There's a stage of life that we get to, and for some it's not as comfortable or an easy stage, and that's retirement. We don't all embrace it and become golfers and boaters. When we think of someone on the farm, how do you think they view retirement when they're so invested in what they've built? 00;22;35;05 - 00;23;19;08 Gwen Devereaux I think it's got to be one of the hardest things. I mean, retirement for many people, it's difficult. You're leaving the team you worked with. You are, you know, setting a routine every day. You got up, you went to work, you and I think certainly COVID just shook us up a little bit on that one. And so for the farmer who has had his own business, his own pride and joy, and he looks around of all the years of hard work that he did creating this, and maybe his father, maybe his grandfather. 00;23;19;10 - 00;23;51;02 Gwen Devereaux So he has, he should have such a sense of pride. And so it's not like walking away from an office that didn't really ever belong to you, or it is. And you also live there. And so there's no getting away from that stress. So you look around in your retirement and it's all there still and you physically are unable to do the work. 00;23;51;04 - 00;24;02;25 Roz Elliot It's yeah, The work doesn't get easier as we age. It's labor. It's intense. Your bones and your muscles feel it don't they. Yeah. 00;24;02;28 - 00;24;14;12 Gwen Devereaux And for most farmers they've lifted perhaps things a little too heavy, right. Yeah. Because there hasn't been someone there to help and they have and they've worked so hard. 00;24;14;12 - 00;24;37;06 Roz Elliot Long hours, long hours, long hours. And the identity, as you say, I always think of our farmers as stewards of the land. It's the people closest to the foundations of our tables, off the king's table to us. They've produced this, they've created this. And what a beautiful pride, as you say. What's a proud moment? How did you step away from that? 00;24;37;06 - 00;24;40;00 Gwen Devereaux You don't seem very hard. 00;24;40;02 - 00;24;49;13 Roz Elliot So do we see depression or things like that affecting people on the farm? 00;24;49;16 - 00;25;27;02 Gwen Devereaux Yes, we do realize that there's a great deal of depression, anxiety. These are tough times walking away as we have spoken about. And I think when some of those pressures come in to your life, then you, you know, you aren't sleeping so well, you aren't eating so well, you're feeling overwhelmed with the smallest tasks, and then you start diving. 00;25;27;02 - 00;26;00;03 Gwen Devereaux And so I think it's very hard for farmers being so stoic and being able to handle everything, to reach out. And we all know that in in tough times, you need to reach out because then you can get some support before you really do get ill. And if you can get some counseling on how to handle, to get back into a good sleep routine, it can make an incredible difference. 00;26;00;05 - 00;26;01;08 Roz Elliot You can mitigate it. 00;26;01;10 - 00;26;02;29 Gwen Devereaux Yes. 00;26;03;02 - 00;26;16;02 Roz Elliot Sadly, there are those who haven't been able to mitigate it that for whatever reason, haven't been able to turn that corner. Are we seeing suicide rates? Are we seeing sort of that picture? 00;26;16;05 - 00;26;21;26 Gwen Devereaux Yeah, It's very unfortunate that there's a high rate of suicides. Yeah, Yeah. For rural farmers. 00;26;21;28 - 00;26;22;28 Roz Elliot Yeah, That's sad. 00;26;23;00 - 00;26;23;13 Gwen Devereaux That's very sad. 00;26;23;13 - 00;26;36;29 Roz Elliot Sad. That's we talk a lot about with youth. We don't often think about this sort of demographic that again doesn't. It's a stoic person who can handle everything. We just don't imagine that they they would succumb. 00;26;37;01 - 00;26;38;08 Gwen Devereaux Absolutely. 00;26;38;11 - 00;26;48;23 Roz Elliot Gwen, what else haven't we talked about that you think it's really important for people to understand as we think about sort of the landscape that people live in and how they're enduring? 00;26;48;25 - 00;27;23;01 Gwen Devereaux Well, with Gateway, we've been looking at all rural health. So across the board, in youth and aging, and health care. And I think that when we first started looking at SHED Talks and looked at our agriculture community, we did not have what's available now for the farmers. So I'm very excited that there are some workshops being done. 00;27;23;03 - 00;27;51;28 Gwen Devereaux There's a helpline now specifically for farmers. We have the National Farmers Mental Health Alliance that has trained people in this area from farm backgrounds, so you can speak confidentially to a counselor. And the beauty now is you can do this virtually. So for the farmer who is finding it really difficult to reach out, maybe they don't want to be seen going to a counselor. 00;27;52;01 - 00;28;23;25 Gwen Devereaux They can they can virtually get the help now. We have the Three Oaks in Chatham, a family who lost a son, a young farmer, first responder, and he took his life. And now they have built a beautiful log cabin in some land that they had. And this is a retreat for people to go that are going through a stressful time. 00;28;23;28 - 00;29;07;28 Gwen Devereaux So I think those things were not in place a few years ago when we were looking at how can we help our really, really important agriculture community. And they're there now. So I'm thankful that those things are in place. The coffee doing workshops. We're working on a mental health first aid. So this project, when we launch, we talk about first aid, physical first aid, and so you learn how to deal with CPR and so on, and you learn how to handle physically and look after injuries. 00;29;08;01 - 00;29;17;18 Gwen Devereaux We're going to shift over to a mental first aid and provide you with some of the tools that can help build your resiliency. 00;29;17;20 - 00;29;55;07 Roz Elliot A powerful word, resiliency. We rely on our agricultural sector. Our family farms need to be resilient. I turn to Vicky Lass, Director of Economic Development with Huron County to offer regional insight and why one of the most powerful tools for resiliency is a farm transition plan. What role does economic development play or even care about succession planning with farming? 00;29;55;09 - 00;30;25;05 Vicki Lass Thanks Roz. If we do get that question, why do we care? Why are we involved with families? But they're businesses and they're part of our number one sector in Huron County and their big businesses. In 2021, we did what we a standard economic development tool, it’s called a business retention and expansion survey. We went out to our businesses to ask them questions about what do they need, what are their challenges, what are their roadblocks, what can we do to help? 00;30;25;07 - 00;30;58;26 Vicki Lass And resoundingly, over 721 businesses answered, including over 200 farm families answered those questionnaires. And we heard over and over again transition planning. It's difficult. It's tough. We're aging out. Here is the baby boomers age. Our business owners are aging, whether they be farm or other business owners. The reality is and what we heard from them is we need help, we need resources, we need better understanding, we need to know where to start. 00;30;58;28 - 00;31;13;27 Vicki Lass And so, that's our job, to provide tools and resources to help our sectors flourish. And we decided to start with farm families, to help them flourish, so that our thriving agricultural sector could continue. 00;31;14;00 - 00;31;23;24 Roz Elliot And when you think about it, the agricultural businesses are very much an anchor institution in the county. So many dollars flow from those dollars. 00;31;23;26 - 00;31;40;28 Vicki Lass Absolutely. So it's not just our farmers, but all along the ag value chain, which is why Brad was part of the conversation with Hensall Co-op. You know, it's our agricultural sector is really quite substantial. We are the highest producing county in Ontario. 00;31;41;01 - 00;32;10;05 Roz Elliot I did not know that. And you know, when I think about farming as a business, we can talk about business. Succession planning is something businesses think about, but it's very nuanced. When you think about a farm, it's far more complex because you're building in legacy the cost of capital. Families are involved, residences are involved. It may not have been a conversation that happened previously with other generations. 00;32;10;07 - 00;32;14;19 Roz Elliot What are some of the reasons it hasn't occurred? 00;32;14;21 - 00;32;37;04 Vicki Lass So farmers really give they've been surveyed and they've been asked. In one survey there was about a 10% response rate from farmers that they were never going to die, so they didn't have to succession plan. And it's like I would like some of that water. But the reality is what we have found from farmers is that there is a real fear of loss of control. 00;32;37;07 - 00;33;09;09 Vicki Lass There is a fear of failure, there is a fear of family friction and a loss of purpose. And so for any of us, when we're looking at retirement, we have those fears to a degree. But farmers are different in that we're so tied to the land, we're so tied to our everyday business. We love what we do. You couldn't do the twenty four-seven of farming if you didn't love it. 00;33;09;12 - 00;33;35;05 Vicki Lass And we think multi-generation personally. So we think about the forefathers who got us set up have been doing it in my husband's family. We can trace back to the 1500s not just farmers, but farmers with his name. The same name first and last have been carried through since the 1500s. That's really hard to just cash in and walk away. 00;33;35;08 - 00;33;57;08 Vicki Lass We don't do that. And even before there were children on the scene, my husband and I were talking about the grandchildren because we think out a number of generations both back and forward. And so that brings a real dynamic that I won't say regular businesses don't have, but not in the same way, I believe, as farm families do. 00;33;57;08 - 00;34;09;06 Vicki Lass And that passing on, that legacy piece, it's just woven into the fabric of agriculture. And actually the culture of agriculture is about that legacy piece. 00;34;09;11 - 00;34;25;28 Roz Elliot Okay, you just hit me in the forehead here. The culture of agriculture, that is such a striking comment. And as you say, this is cultural. It is legacy. It's in the DNA. It's literally in someone's DNA, isn't it? 00;34;26;01 - 00;34;49;22 Vicki Lass I mean, you look at succession planning and you look at the value of some of the farms in Huron County. Of the 2564 farms in Huron County, they have under their management over $12 billion in capital assets alone, $12 billion in capital assets alone. We happen to know that Huron County is above the Canadian average. 00;34;49;22 - 00;35;11;02 Vicki Lass The Canadian average of written succession plans is about 8% of farms have them, Huron County has 14%. But Roz, when we do the math, that's still over $10 billion in capital assets alone, not revenue, capital assets alone that are unprotected with a written plan. 00;35;11;04 - 00;35;30;27 Roz Elliot And we're talking written, I'm sure people have a verbal understanding, but even with that, that verbal isn't solid, it's not structured, it's not documented. How does that make you feel when you hear that that amount of revenue and capital is, to your words, unprotected? 00;35;30;29 - 00;36;07;17 Vicki Lass It leaves our top sector in a very vulnerable position, and that's of huge concern. We want to remain in our position as the most highly productive agricultural county in Ontario. We want to encourage the investment that those farm families have made and not just in capital, but in sweat equity, in emotion, in legacy. We want to make sure that maintains it's the fabric of who Huron County is, and we need to help protect that and help support that in any way that we can. 00;36;07;19 - 00;36;19;18 Roz Elliot And so we're coming full circle. Here comes Ec Dev, the role that you can play. What are some of the tools that you've already introduced or are in the process of introducing? 00;36;19;25 - 00;36;39;14 Vicki Lass So we went carefully through what was asked for in that business retention and expansion survey, or we call it BR&E we shorten everything and we paid a lot of attention. We looked at a lot of other studies as well. And what most farm families found was they just didn't know where to start and that's where we come in. 00;36;39;17 - 00;37;09;20 Vicki Lass So we have compiled a number of podcasts that you can find links to on our website. We have actually purchased and put books in our library system so you can borrow them and read them quietly. We have put a number of links to various experts information and resources so that you can quietly read. And so the idea being is that farms don't really farm, families don't really want to come to the table and have these discussions because they they fear that friction. 00;37;09;22 - 00;37;49;26 Vicki Lass And so what we've tried to create is a number of resources that you can quietly explore alone, that you can share at those farm meetings, that you can learn new language, new tools, new resources to bring to those discussions. And then you can also find the coaches and the people who can help you work through those discussions. Because, Roz, not only does it help with the succession planning, when families meet on a regular basis and they have some clarity around what the future looks like, both for the founding generation and the new the next generation farms are more profitable. 00;37;49;28 - 00;38;00;13 Roz Elliot It all comes down to the bottom line. Thank you for saying that, because so often when we talk about initiatives, people miss the point that it's good for the bottom line. Yeah. 00;38;00;16 - 00;38;20;10 Vicki Lass When you're at a point where it's causing tremendous stress to not know what the future looks like, to not know what those farm family meetings are going to look like, when you have that kind of stress in your life, it's very hard to do your job effectively and as efficiently as you could and therefore as profitably as you. 00;38;20;10 - 00;38;22;06 Roz Elliot Could and not make mistakes. 00;38;22;06 - 00;38;46;28 Vicki Lass Absolutely. And one of the most interesting stats that we've had is there's a farmer mental health line that you can call twenty fours - seven and get assistance on the spot and it's manned by people who understand the culture of agriculture and mental health. And in its first year of existence, which its first year ended in June, and the line is still open. 00;38;47;00 - 00;39;09;13 Vicki Lass But looking at the first year stats, there was an overwhelming number of farmers calling between the ages of 55 and 75, and their main concern was succession planning. It causes tremendous stress, just as friction in any family causes stress, and they're not necessarily having friction. They don't know what to do. They don't know how to start the conversation. 00;39;09;19 - 00;39;30;18 Vicki Lass They don't know how to overcome their fears. And so in the EcDev department, what we're trying to do is give you many points of entry. Sort of I like to use the analogy, if we put out a smorgasbord of tools and resources and please come and select what works for you now and come back and select what works for you next. 00;39;30;26 - 00;39;46;17 Vicki Lass And we'll be continuing this conversation and continuing to add resources. Every family’s different, people can then select what works best for them, for their family, for their discussions, for their point in the journey. Because it's a process. It's not an end point. 00;39;46;19 - 00;40;08;17 Roz Elliot We talked earlier with Gwen Devereaux and we talked about aging out and retirement, and so much of our identity is tied into the farm. As you say, it's a life. It's not a job. It's so much more embedded into our psyche that it's difficult. And I heard you say one time you phrased it that you're not stepping out your. 00;40;08;19 - 00;40;32;05 Vicki Lass Yes, it's not about stepping out. It's about stepping back. And when you can step back, it gives you it takes away that fear of loss of purpose. It takes away that fear of failure because you're still there. But what's tricky and necessary is to value what everybody brings to the table. So when you step back a bit, you still have things to offer. 00;40;32;05 - 00;40;54;12 Vicki Lass You have seen numerous seasons, you have seen droughts, you have seen times when the rain just wouldn't stop and you just could not put away dry hay. Like how frustrating. You've seen the ups and downs, you've seen the changes in the industry, but also recognizing that the next generation has had the opportunity to have formal education, to benefit from the science and the research and information. 00;40;54;12 - 00;41;13;12 Vicki Lass And when you can marry those two in a way where everyone's knowledge is respected and we can grow together, the success is unlimited. But it's not about somebody dying and then taking over. And that's why we like transition as opposed to succession. Transition is stepping back, not stepping out. 00;41;13;14 - 00;41;29;29 Roz Elliot Thank you for being part of this conversation and starting this conversation and making it happen. So we appreciate your leadership on this and all the partners that you've brought to the table. It's very encouraging. Any last thoughts? 00;41;30;02 - 00;42;14;03 Vicki Lass I just really appreciate the opportunity to speak with you. And I just have the sincerest appreciation for those members of our community who've been willing to be part of the conversations. Because, again, it is a vulnerable thing to talk about your personal experience in a family business, whether it's a family farm or a family business. And I really admire the founder generation and the next generation who have been willing to participate with us and to talk about tools, resources, things that have worked well, things that haven't, but to open up to their community members because they're devoted to their community and they're willing to share. 00;42;14;03 - 00;42;24;07 Vicki Lass And so I just really want to say I admire them for saying yes. And I encourage you to listen to their conversations. 00;42;24;09 - 00;42;52;19 Roz Elliot I hope we've set the table for the need of a farm transition plan. Next episode, I sit down with strategic business consultant Jim Lynn, who has worked directly with farm families on developing a farm transition plan. He shares the good, bad and, yes, ugly. And then we hear the perspective of three women family founders about their experience with farm transitions. 00;42;52;21 - 00;43;30;09 Roz Elliot Then a special event, a one day farm succession planning event called Finding Fairness in Farm Transition, featuring Canada's Farm Whisperer and family coach Elaine Froese. That's on November 16 in Goderich offered by Huron County Economic Development. For more information, go to their website at Huroncounty.ca/economic-development you can sign up for a one hour individual coaching session with Elaine Froese on November 17th. 00;43;30;12 - 00;43;57;16 Roz Elliot It can be your first step towards ensuring your family farm succession. And Elaine will be back on February 29th for a farm succession webinar. More to come on that. We'll follow on with further perspectives. The founder men, the next gen and the in-law perspective all here on Huron County's Life on The Coast. Thanks for listening. I'm Roz Elliot. 00;43;57;18 - 00;44;14;22 Roz Elliot This podcast is funded in part by the Ontario Ministry of Agriculture, Food and Rural Affairs and the County of Huron. The views expressed in this podcast are not those of the province or the county.